Eating Crow, Humble Pie and other Humiliation Tactics
Oct 12th, 2008 by BohemianMoon
The theme that has run through the many unsolicited emails and (unpublished) blog comments that I have received in the week since Pennpeople, et al, were “exposed” has been the undeniable squawk of
“Ready to eat crow, Bitch?”
Or “How does that humble pie taste you c***?”
And my personal favorite, “Time for you to humiliate you, like you humiliated me, you (again), C***!”
(I will give you three guesses on the author of that foregoing little gem that spurred nothing from me other than a hearty WTF?!?!)
The obvious etymology of these phrases as well as the “word” (a word, by the way, that is all but taboo in my home, but one that apparently many a woman uses against another when they are safely behind their “anonymous” computer screen) screamed their intention loud and clear!
To wit:
I must self-flagellate in the public “town square” in an effort to repent the error of my ways in reaching out to a stranger that reached out first to me, and then continued to do so in the wake of what I was led to believe was one of their darkest hours.
I am still baffled by why one (or a hundred) would want me to publicly humble and/or humiliate myself for a exercising a simple and heartfelt act of kindness extended by a stranger, to a stranger, in cyberland.
It is what compassionate people do in a civilized society.
But as we know, cyberland is anything but civilized, as evidenced by the recent Pennpeople controversy and the subsequent “fall out” surrounding it.
And what a seemingly long strange trip its been.
When Penn faction arrived on the scene, and I was alerted to her blog, I read the first entries and emailed her to say hello and give her the URL of my blog. While I read her blog everyday, or at least whenever there was a new entry, I never posted on it after a introductory post, a few posts sending prayers and one post to give a gentle suggestion to another poster that, as a blog owner myself, it is common courtesy to conduct oneself in a manner that is respectful to the blog owner, as this could be considered a part of their “home”. One would not come into another person’s home, guns a blazin’ and demand, demand, demand. If the same were to occur at one’s home in real time, the offender would most likely get the police called on them in time, record flat. For the life of me, other than the anonymity angle, I do not understand why persons conduct themselves in cyber-space in a manner that would, in public, shun them from large parts of society. After being on the internet 12 years, it still baffles me.
After Penn & Company’s Jason took a major turn for the worse, out of the blue I, as well as a number of other people that had emailed Penn, received an email stating that she took down her blog as the harassment was getting too much and her son’s health was in major danger. In the same breath she asked for support. Support I was happy to give, as I do not conduct myself online any different than I do in my real time life.
Subsequently, all the email updates were from Will, sans one more from Penn earlier on. All asked me to pray as well as post their updates to my blog. I was happy to comply. The power of prayer or good energy can be a miraculous thing.
In a “parallel universe”, the polar opposite was occurring. Certain sites were calling her a fraud and conducting what I feel was a verifiable witch hunt to prove their claims. That, in and of itself, is really none of my business. What WAS mine, however, was to refuse to be badgered, threatened and baited in an attempt to quash any further prayers for Penn & Company, or to reveal her as a fraud on my site. I have the right, in my own home, not to answer the door when one I care not to talk to, knocks upon it. We all do. And just because my blog is public to read, does NOT give anyone the right to abuse me in comments or email insisting on me taking another position - their position- particularly when Penn & Company has asked nothing from me but prayers. No money, no material items, only prayers.
Now, along the way, there were some minor things that raised my antenna and had me questioning the entire scenario, particularly after the supposed death. But, I also have an 18 year old who is in college, and this Penn situation during its height certainly played on my fears as a mother. I just could not imagine not supporting someone through this tragedy as I had, even if I did have small doubts. If there was one iota of this being true, I was going to continue to pray. Praying has never been, for me, wasted time no matter what or who it was for.
A day or two after the supposed death, there was a comment from Will on one of my blog entries, stating only “Thank you for your kindness”. It had a URL of a blog as well as the Pennmommy Gmail address. I clicked the blog and some things really didn’t jive for me, so I adopted the “sit back and wait approach”. I had been alerted via email regarding the investigation that was being performed by numerous people around the net and it was just about the same time that I started to get the aforementioned eat crow/humble pie/humiliate yourself emails. I responded to a few polite blog inquiries stating my position that I do not immediately jump ship from one belief to another simply because people want to stronghold me into doing so. I am a critical thinker and if not from that, it is from life experience that I know the truth will ultimately reveal itself. It may not be in one day, one week, or one month, but the total truth will be eventually known.
I felt it prudent to let some dust settle and conduct my own research on the situation before I stated my position, as my OWN truth, and no one else’s. Which is, I feel, what each and every person that had invested emotionally into this situation should. From my experience, persons come to their own realizations and truth on their OWN time lines, and not on one that is dictated by yet another stranger/strangers over the internet.
Quite frankly, this mystery grows more convoluted by the day, and my personal feeling is that it is not quite finished yet, and therefore, for me, the truth of the matter -the ultimate truth-has yet to be revealed. So for you that have emailed repeatedly telling me that I am wrong for “sweeping this situation under the rug and not addressing it”, nothing could be farther from the truth. I simply have not, for myself, connected all the dots I feel necessary to satisfy me.
If you have,dear readers, come to your own truth regarding this situation, more power to you! I hope that you are satisfied with your truth as THAT is the only thing that truly matters. If you feel horrified that you feel you have been duped, for that I am sorry. Particularly for those women that have lost children and relived their stories as a means of support. No one wants to rip their soul raw to help another only to find out that it was all a cruel ruse. To me, it is not unlike the dupe many people must feel knowing that they donated to the Gosselins thinking that they were a family living in poverty, only to find out that all along the Gosselins most likely had more money than they will ever see in their lifetimes.
It hurts, no doubt.
For what it is worth, I am not totally convinced that at the heart of this matter lies a Munchausen by Internet situation. I am leaning more towards a group effort con. However, the jury it still out for me personally and the truth will come in due time. But, until then, there is no reason for crow, humble pie or humiliation to be on the menu for those that offered nothing but themselves in support and prayer that was given in good, honest and loving faith.
For those of you that are continuing to follow this saga, these sites may be of interest:
http://berlzebub.blogspot.com/2008/10/p-blog-drama.html?showComment=1223609820000
Moon,
Once again I am completely in agreeance with your stance. Every one of us who sent prayers of all kinds to the Pennpeople should feel proud if anything for the humility in reaching out to another in need (emotionally, spritually, mentally). If we had been sending cheques for medical bills, etc, then sure mail me a humble pie, or stuff my face with crow…but this is not the case. If I ever felt I needed to reach out to strangers to get through a difficult time, I would hope that people would reach back, and not instantly call me a liar. It’s what people do, reach out to one another. Perhaps those who feel inclined to pull away when someone reaches out to them for support are the ones who need to take a look at themselves. Those who live in glass houses should not cast stones!! I would rather be compassionate than cold and jaded. So we reached out to, and trusted someone who may have pulled the wool over eyes, at least we didnt alienate and hurt someone even more who needed us in a desperate hour! Food for thought!
Moon, don’t let them get to you! It is a desperate attempt to make you feel little, and you are much, much bigger than that!!
I forgot to address the Munchausen by internet thing. I always thought that people suffering from Munchausen (lets use mom’s as an example to make it easy) did not just pretend their kids were sick, but actually made their kids sick (poison) or hurt them (broke their arm) and did it in such a fashion that they didnt always know consiously that they were responsible for their loved ones illness, not that they just pretended they were really ill…….Am I incorrect??
#2 Kristie~
Thanks for taking your time to comment and weigh in, it is appreciated
I think that you are referring to Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy, a deviation of Munchausen, wherein a mother/guardian of a child does make them sick in order to garner the sympathy and attention of medical personnel, family, friends and anyone else that will listen to them.
Munchausen by Internet resembles Munchausen Syndrome more closely, IMO.
http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/articles/chronic/faking.html
I hope this helps
Very well said. I think a lot of us feel that way. Thanks for articulating it so well.
I think Fiona is literally crazy. There’s no logic and common sense with them - I don’t think there’s anything that anyone can say to get through to her. Bless you for taking the high road with her.
Moon, I feel the same way as you but am not as eloquent at stating my position, thanks for your take on this situation. The following is a post that I made on my own blog on Thurs. Oct. 9 in which I was basically trying to find the words to say what you have said.
The PennMommy thing
I have read elsewhere that “some Gosselin sites” are ignoring the PennMommy is “fake” thing. Well, I’m not exactly ignoring it. I really don’t know what to believe. I am reserving judgement.
The bottom line on that is…as far as my opinion on Jon & Kate goes…nothing has changed. I sure don’t want to believe that I was fooled, who would, at the moment…I’m not convinced one way or the other so I’m not sure what to say about it. I don’t have all the answers, heck, I don’t really have any answers, so I’m just going by what I’ve read in other blogs, which is again…only someone’s opinion.
Put it this way…if she is real and her whole story is real, then she is a grieving mom. If she and her story are not true, then she must be pretty proud of herself for fooling so many people for about a month. Either way, does not change the fact that Jon & Kate are using their children as chattel.
Moon,
IMHO you have handled yourself well throughout the Pennfamily situation. Don’t let these people get you down. I too would rather err in helping someone who doesn’t really need the help. Since Pennfamily never asked for money for themselves, I have no regrets as to where my money did go because of this…food for the hungry and a DVT charity. There is real need at both charities. I pray that Pennfamily be given guidance and that you be given strength. When that last day comes I would rather be asked “Why did you never learn discernment?” rather than “Did you never hear the words ‘what you have do for the least of these…’?”
Wow! The links you listed above sure provided some interesting reading. P Momma certainly has some ardent supporters. BUT I am so confused. For example some of the names I see mentionned (like Bethanna and BK), I have seen these people often comment on different J&k blogs. Do these people all live in Bakersfield and are they friends with P momma too. If so Bakersfield is a busy place. I tend to agree with you that the answer to this puzzle is not exactly what Gdnop has presented. But to tell you the truth, I don’t think I am smart enough to figure it all out - but I am interested. I’m new to your blog and love reading your “take” on things. Can you elaborate more on your “group effort con” theory or at least for what reason there would be a “group effort con”? Also do you think anyone really died? I read Possummomma’s blog a little and I ended up liking her TOO. I must be a real sap.This gentle reader remains very confused and looks forward to your input. Thanks.
you’re completely right on all accounts. at first, when somewhat credible evidence came forth that this was all a fraud, i was really upset about it. then as i thought further on the matter, i came to the realization that you did. i didnt send them money, i didn’t put myself out financially for them. i DID pray, send encouraging emails, etc. so what have i lost? nothing really. i would do those things for anyone in need, in my real life or online. if it is all a hoax, then i hope to some degree the guilty parties feel a bit of shame when they recieved all those well wishing emails. to realize that so many were concerned and worried. but on the flip side, i learned something from all this. i hadn’t realized before but i am a little naive online. which is funny, because i’m quite the opposite in real life. (borderline jaded:) so i learned to take things with a little more grain of salt. good lesson learned, especially without any real consequences. the funny thing is that i know a woman in my life who would do something like this, and i’m constantly distrustful of her. i believe very little of what she says. and yet i bought it hook, line and sinker online. i would really like to eventually know the whole story, just to satisfy my own curiousity!
The people on the blogs you linked to are obviously invested in keeping Possum Momma and Penn Mommy separate. The facts are, no such Jason Haas existed at USC and no student died. There would be no reason for him to wait, as a poster of yours pointed out, they have a health clinic open 7 days a week.
It’s an elaborate hoax and, in an effort to protect the blogging identity of Possum, they are perpetuating this lie. All of this makes me want to retreat from the blog world. Some people will stop at nothing.
Moon, I couldn’t agree more. The whole multi-layered situation demands a thoughtful, considered response. Not a knee-jerk witch hunt.
And no, none of us who believed PM and the hoax need to be ashamed or contrite for trusting her. I think I’ve covered that ground a few times, so I’ll let it go with this: I believed her. So what? What harm did sending prayers and good thoughts out to the world do?
The greater harm is the continued need to be “right,” to quaify all kinds of words and actions as the saviors of the blog world.
What I do regret, to be honest, is that a created situation caused the kind of personal attacks and e-mails you mention. My thoughts on the blog’s actions were behind a couple posts I made that were strongly worded. I am sorry they added fuel to the fire of that week.
I’d have more regret, I guess, if the person they’d been directed to had more self-awareness during the whole fiasco. To deny the reality of words from both sides is an attempt to change perceptions. I think those are now cast in stone. The words are out there and there they will stay.
If, as time has passed, you continue to get those kind of messages, I think that it tells you a lot more about the senders than we ever, ever want to know.
And, for the record, there are several of us whose names have been linked together as a possible PM crew of sorts. Not true. And the new blog is a distasteful creation of unknown origin to me and others. I know now the futility of defending something on the Internet, but a blog publicly comparing someone to a pig is not anything I’d want to be associated with.
Moon,
I’m with you. I’m new to the whole blogosphere and was concerned for the Pennfamily. Giving support took nothing away from my family or friends, so I see no need to apologize. Not to mention good energy is never wasted.
None of this drama warrants the harrassment and name calling you’ve been subjected to.
**BTW I’ve always thought that the C word is so mysoginistic as to be banned from vocabulary. **
The only thing I am sorry for is that you’ve borne the brunt of the Luney Toon repeatedly and without cause.
I hope your lawyer can make this person (s) go away.
Hugs from Canada
Well my only truth right now is that this is all making my brain hurt if I think about it at all. Thanks for your post Moon. Since you’re someone who suffered some collateral damage in all this, I think that you are handling it great.
Hi
I am still new here and still very confussed. I wake up and say ok forget about the whole penn mommy thing like I did today then I found this on Kick the Gosselins to the curb blog and it peaked my intrest again. I dont know what the truth is or isnt but this is the only thing that did make sense thttp://exchristian.net/exchristian/2008/10/atheist-in-minivan-blog-attacked-by.htmlo me. Maybe its time to let it go I dont know. here is the link
thanks for listening
anne
wait, I’m confused. Wasn’t the “c” word used on an anti-gosselin blog against GDNNOP? Well, they used “K” as the first letter. It was an acronym for “Kate’s Underground Network Team.” Could this be what the poster was referring to?
I think Fiona is a wackadoo but is it really fair to lump a whole blog together on the action of one poster? If we were to do that with them, we’d have to do it with GWoP and some other anti- factions.
I think we really need to examine the way we treat others (on all sides). Could it be possible that both sides thought that they were doing what is right?
Hi it’s me again from comment #7. You know I do think you have this conspiracy theory/grassy knoll thing right. Bananabethanna is the person who has frequently posted on GWOP - and I believe she has represented herself as an “insider” of J&K. She is also very close to Possum Momma according to older blogs I have read of PossumMomma (she was providing readers with PM’s Amazon wish list and indicated she spoke to her often, she also lives in CA) and these posts go back to January of 08. Atheist in a Minivan (possum also) did post on GWOP making some sort of a reference about Bananabethanna being reticent to post on GWOP because of reader’s reactions. So those two are definitely connected. Why the hoax?? I don’t get it. I think you get it - Bohemian Moon - take me out of my misery and Spill!!! THANKS
Hi moon,
I understand you wanting to take a step back and find the truth for yourself regarding the pennmommy situation instead of jumping to conclusions before you have all of the facts, but here’s the thing: you didn’t extend the same courtesy to the posters or mods at gdnnop.
I think it is completely absurd for someone to come to your blog and make those kinds of comments. There is no excuse, but there is a reason. There were some very hateful things said about gdnnop here and they are still experiencing a backlash presumably from the gwop crowd, for exposing a fraud. You say in your post that you had your doubts about pm before, but you continued to denounce gdnnop on this site. Why? Because they they don’t share your views about the Gosselins?
Should they have kept this information to themselves? Would they have been better people to just let her continue to perpetuate her lies?
If the shoe were on the other foot, and gdnnop had accused you and you readers of being heartless stalkers because of a story you knew was a lie, would you feel the same way?
I don’t think anyone expects an apology for your concern for a person whom you thought was experiencing a difficult time. In fact, it’s admirable to care about another person, especially one you don’t know. People were treated very badly as a result of this hoax by your blog and others, and THAT is what is upsetting.
I get the impression from your recent post that you are now convinced that at least the bulk of pm’s story was a lie, but your anger is directed at the blog who told you the truth. That just doesn’t make any sense to me.
#5 Libby~
Exactly. None of this Pennpeople/possummomma has any effect on the exploitation of children in “reality” tv shows, and particularly the Gosselins.
Thanks for your comments, I appreciate them.
#6 Chris~
Thanks for taking the time to comment, it is appreciated.
For the record, no one is getting me down. It is an interesting dynamic of the internet, that people feel they have carte blanche to be someone that they could never be in real time life. Dissertations are bring wrote about this dynamic and have been for years. It is both fascinating and unnerving.
What is clear, and perhaps some of the readers here do not understand still is that I am pretty damn serious when I say that I do not conduct myself any different online than I do in my real time life. I have never had much sympathy for bullies, and I will call them out whether I am addressing them in person or from my computer.
#7 JoanneS~
“Gentle reader”. I love that
As I stated, my jury is still out on all of this. It has been a fascinating mystery and one more piece of proof that truth is stranger than fiction, even if the truth WAS all fiction, if that makes sense.
What I meant as a group effort, is that I do not believe that just one Penn person wrote all of the update emails to me. They were distinctively different in vibe/energy to ME.
It was interesting that I read on some blog or another that person’s were claiming that Will, due to his age, could not write in that manner. I could be way off, but it was my impression that they were insinuating that due to his age, that type of maturity would not transpose into the written word in that manner. I definately differ on that one. You should see some of my 18 year old’s writings. Point being, I am not convinced that Will’s email updates were the same person that wrote the Pennmommy blog, if that makes sense. In other words, two or more people as there were other email/posts from other “family” members…….different vibes to me.
Did a young adult die? I am not convinced now that this young man did, and damn, that is the best news ever, don’t you think? That, in and of itself, should be celebrated. Again, I am horrified for the women that had truly lost children that relived their loss through this potential ruse. That is the one aspect, to me, that is the most disturbing. The pain that they freely relived to help another.
As I said, this saga seems to be ongoing, and ultimately the truth will come out. Will everyone be burned out on this entire situation by then?
Probably.
#8 Marie~
I too would love to know the whole story, and as I have articulated, at some point I am sure that we will. I am just not convinced that the whole story will come fast enough for some people.
Regardless, be happy with and in yourself that you are caring and compassionate and are willing to share those qualities with others, that is what is truly important here and in all of life
Peace and good, and thank you for taking the time to weigh in and express your thoughts regarding this situation, it is appreciated!
# 9 Leslie~
I agree, from those links it certainly does look like they are defending her.
I presented those links solely for my readers that may not have been aware that there was yet another blog war brewing and gave some more insight to the situation.
I have not been to the first link today, but will get there later on. I think that there is a lot to be gleened from the exchange on that blog entry.
It is helping me to connect some dots, perhaps it will helpo others connect some of their own.
Thanks for yoru comments.
#10 Airezoe~
Thank you for your post. It was, as always, thoughtful and eloquent, and for that I thank you.
You are one bright cookie, ain’t cha?
As for the 1st blog you mention, I will reiterate that the truth is what you state.
As for the hog one……..good Lord, it just reiterates what I have been saying about intelligence and decorum. The makers of that blog, whomever they may be, IMO, do not know the meaning of either. I feel sorry for their children.
#11 Joanne~
Thanks for taking the time to weigh in, I appreciate it.
As I have stated through this, prayers are never wasted.
And yes on the “C” word. I have actually used that word in a couple of my conceptual art pieces, and used it to make a point.
It is so interesting to me that woman love to call another with one of the most vulgar and offensive words in the English language. To me, however, it simply shows their level of intelligence, class, education, and all over decorum in how they handle themselves. Their children should be so proud of a parent that conducts themselves in that manner.
Personally, my kid would be horrified.
#12 Karen M~
Ii don’t feel that I have suffered anything regarding this. I have fielded a lot of vile emails and comments, but other than that, no. I have a bumper sticker on my fridge that says “Mean People Suck”, and it is a humerous little reminder.
More and more is being revealed about this Penn/Possum people situation and the ultimate truth should be interesting.
Again, Pennpeople people took nothing from me but some time, energy and prayers.
#13 Anne~
Thanks Anne. I have the direct link to the Calladus blog in my entry, but I do thank you for taking the time to post it. It is appreciated as well as you taking the time to weigh in
#14 Leslie~
I was refering to emailers and posters that were calling me a C, because I had not commented on the Pennmommy situation, or when it was in its height, not allowing dergogatroy comments posted on my blog.
I took no stance in my above entry that said these emails and comments were coming from one particular place, so I am unsure of how you came to that conclusion.
Thanks for your comment.
#15 Joanne~
If I had it totally clear FOR ME, I would not hesitate to leave my impressions. Blame it on the strong Virgo/Scorpio/Leo in my natal chart, lol, but I am still connecting dots.
When I come to my own truth regarding the situation, I will write an entry addressing it.
It certainly something that rivals Agatha Christie, isn’t it?
#16 Jamie~
Hi moon,
Hi Jamie
________________________________
I understand you wanting to take a step back and find the truth for yourself regarding the pennmommy situation instead of jumping to conclusions before you have all of the facts, but here’s the thing: you didn’t extend the same courtesy to the posters or mods at gdnnop.
_______________________________
Excuse me? What I did ask for is persons not to try and pull in the fraud aspect of this while we were in the midst of the possible death of a young adult. As I stated, if there was on iota of a chance that the entirety of this was true, then my prayers would continue. GDNNOP had an entire vehicle, their blog, in which to further that agenda/theory. What people wanted to do was use my blog -my home- to further announce their theories to a wider audience as well as try to convince those that believed in the Pennpeople situation that the GDNNOP theories were correct. Further, many posters from there, and other places around the net, hardly carried themselves in a thoughtful, professional manner, IMO. The communications were bold, sanctimonious, aggressive, threatening and down right vile in some of them. Sorry, I am unsure why people are having a hard time comprehending that I will not be bullied in my own home. Anyone that is following the Gosselins would be hard pressed, though the Pennpeople situation, not to have come across a link for the GDNNOP blog and at least an abstract/annotation of what their theories were. They were free to go to that site and read what was offered, and subsequently make up their minds as to what THEY wanted to believe.
In my time blogging regarding Jon and Kate Plus Eight, I do not believe that I have ever even posted on GDDNOP. I posted on Pennmommy’s literally a handful of times with the majority simply offering prayers, I have posted on GWoP a handful of times as well, the most recently placing a link to a Will update that I thought they would be interested in. So as you can see, I don’t post on a whole lot of blogs, but yet, when I ask for decorum regarding a situation from one blog, the answers was a big ass stronghold “No!”. I have absolutely no obligation to post anything on my blog that I care not to, and the same way with every blog out there. Quite frankly, as my blog is not as busy as others, I rarely, if ever, moderated it it until is became necessary due to bullying and subsequently stalking.
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I think it is completely absurd for someone to come to your blog and make those kinds of comments.
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I agree
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There is no excuse, but there is a reason. There were some very hateful things said about gdnnop here and they are still experiencing a backlash presumably from the gwop crowd, for exposing a fraud. You say in your post that you had your doubts about pm before, but you continued to denounce gdnnop on this site. Why? Because they they don’t share your views about the Gosselins?
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IMO, you can’t have “No Excuse” but then justify it in the same breath. However, I said nothing regarding GDNNOP except for the fact that while Jason was supposedly dying, persons from that blog would not give it a rest, and they wouldn’t. Again, I am having a hard time comprehending why this blog needed me or my readers to believe what they were saying as if we all needed to drop our own beliefs because they were saying the polar opposite. Good Lord, please give people credit for being able to think for themselves. Again, anyone following the Pennpeople saga would have been hard pressed not to come across the views of GDDNOP, it was all over the net. Are you trying to tell me that people cannot read two, three or four differing views and come to their own conclusion or truth?
As for the backlash from the GWoP crowd, I am unsure of what you are talking about. I am confused as to why you and/or GDDNOP would like to connect me to that blog as if, simply because we share some of the same views, we are twins of a seperate mother. When I wrote my first article on the Gosselins back in mid-August, a few days after publishing it, I received an email from a Mod there that asked if they could link that article. I told them of course, and they did. If you will notice I am not linked there in their “sites of interest” section, nor are they on my blogroll. In other words, we are two seperate blogs that, at best, share some of the same readers. As I stated in one of my posts, it seems the two blogs, GDDNOP and GWoP have a type of animosity towards each other that I suspect has much more to do with just opposing views of the Gosselins. Their seems to be a history there, but a history that I have no desire to be pulled into. I have stated this prior, but it seems that your faction either doesn’t hear what I am saying, or simply choose not to hear it. I suspect the latter, but that is not really my problem. It only becomes my problem when I request a certian decorum regarding my blog, and it is met with bullying and stronghold.
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Should they have kept this information to themselves? Would they have been better people to just let her continue to perpetuate her lies?
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But this is the thing. As I stated, if there was one iota of a chance that this family was going through what was claimed, I was not going to be bullied inot advancing another blog’s bulwark. GDNNOP HAD their own vehicle and a captive audience in which to further their theories. They wanted my blog as well, and sorry, I am not renting space at this point in time. Why they could not accept that, you will have to ask them. And as for talking badly about a blog, perhaps GDDNOP should take a good look in the mirror. I had not previously read a lot of their blog, but I did, over the last week, read a good portion of it. I find it interesting that they were bad mouthing me and my blog long before this Pennmommy hurricane blew through. Don’t YOU find that curious? Why would someone bad rap another person/blog, particularly on in which the purportedly offending blog/owner never has posted on their blog. What is the point of that? I have not posted not emailed anyone from there, but I certainly was not privy to the same courtesy. Why? Simply because the Gosselin train wreck and the exploitation of children makes me ill?
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If the shoe were on the other foot, and gdnnop had accused you and you readers of being heartless stalkers because of a story you knew was a lie, would you feel the same way?
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Then I would have stated my theories/opinion, etc on my own blog, pretty much as I have done since I started writing my blog back in April. I am unsure, again, why you think that persons are so dolt that they can not read opposing positions, research and come to their own conclusions. I give my readers definately more credit than that. For the most part I tend to attract intelligent, thoughtful posters that are used to exercising their critical thinking skills, and not taking everything they read at face value, including what they read on my blog.
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I don’t think anyone expects an apology for your concern for a person whom you thought was experiencing a difficult time. In fact, it’s admirable to care about another person, especially one you don’t know.
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Thank you, I agree.
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People were treated very badly as a result of this hoax by your blog and others, and THAT is what is upsetting.
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I know I was treated very badly, but I also know the level of person/s that I was dealing with for the most part.
I am unsure who else was hurt so badly besides feeling duped for giving their prayers, etc. As far as I know, the Pennpeople never asked for anything material, including on the “Memorial Blog”. If I receall correctly, they made a suggestion if one wanted to donate something, that they donate to the March of Dimes, which I believe linked to the actual March of Dimes site.
You again seem to be trying to make me responsible for other’s free thinking. I am not responsible for what anyone, whether it is in real time or online, chooses or chooses not to believe. And no matter how hard you try and make me a fall guy in this situation, I am not taking that leap. For me to do so is paramount to saying that my readers don’t have the sense God gave a billy goat to think for themselves. Talk about insulting.
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I get the impression from your recent post that you are now convinced that at least the bulk of pm’s story was a lie, but your anger is directed at the blog who told you the truth. That just doesn’t make any sense to me.
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Interesting, I did not read a hell of a lot of anger in my last entry, but ok. I do know where many of the vile unplulished comments and emails that came in came from. And many DID come from that blog, and that was what I was addressing. Again, today, when I signed into my blog, there were again vile comments from readers of that blog. Is the blog in its entirety responsible for those comments? No. It just happens to be the company they keep, so if it refects on them, then perhaps they should take personal responsibility for that.
I thank you for taking the time to comment and excuse the many typos that I am sure I have made in that ridiculously long reply. I did want to address all of your concerns and I hope that I have accomplished that.
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Dear Moon:
This whole P-family thing has got my head spinning…
I believed every word Pennmommy and William wrote. My heart hurt for Pennmommy when she wrote of Jason’s hospital stays. I prayed for a miracle and that Jason would somehow recover and I cried when I read of his passing. Am I ashamed or feel bad that I said a prayer or two for Jason and P-mommy? No. Should anyone be? No, I don’t think so. I thought it was wonderful how so many people prayed for a mom who was losing her son. It was an act of a community of sorts trying to comfort someone they care about, even if they don’t know this person. In this day and age, I feel that we don’t see it very often. I read about murders and kidnappings and other senseless acts of violence in the newspapers or see it on the news. It is hard to remember that most people are not bad. It makes me believe that there is still good in people (as Pollyanna as that may sound).
I have read the “proof” off of the GDNNOP board. I also read the posts to the links you have listed above. It has left me confused and frustrated. Where I sit right now, I think the truth sits somewhere between the two.. and to be honest, I don’t think I will ever know where the whole truth lies in this circumstance. It is something that I have come to accept.
That doesn’t mean that I am not interested in reading about what your final conclusion is on this whole thing.
Moon, I sense trolls under a veneer of ignorance, confusion and innocent questions.
#29 Zimmom~
One of my boldest truths is this: Good and kindess always overrides putrid and abrasion, for if it didn’t, we would have ceased to exist long ago.
There ain’t nothin’ pollyannish about that, my friend !
I too believe that the truth lies between the two and ultimately that will be revealed, but as I stated, no one will probably care by that time.
Thanks for taking your time to weigh in, it is appreciated
#30 Airezoe~
“Who’s that tramping over my bridge?” roared the troll.
“It’s I! The big Billy Goat Gruff ,” said the billy goat, who had a voice of her own.
“Now I ‘m coming to gobble you up,” roared the troll.
To be continued……………………………
What I meant as a group effort, is that I do not believe that just one Penn person wrote all of the update emails to me. They were distinctively different in vibe/energy to ME.
I was one who “fell” for the story, I am being told that it was “obvious”, but really it was not to me.
Do you know if your multiple e-mails came from the same source (IP)?
I find it funny for those who label as “haters” of the Gosselins were the ones who were genuinely concerned about the situation of this family.
Moon, thank you for your post and subsequent responses. I am growing quite weary of the ‘blog wars’. Having recently tried to answer things asked of me at GDNNOP I experienced their version of fairness. Let’s just say beating my head against a wall would probably have accomplished more. Their claims of no hidden agendas and not understanding why GWoP attacks them really make no sense when they are pretty much involved in all the same forms of behaviors. Now, your blog has been pulled into the fray. They speak of ‘trolls’ trying to cause problems on their blog, yet they allow Fiona to post freely and to accuse you of falsely accusing her of things she didn’t do. Did everyone miss the post you made a couple of days ago proving her activities? I just don’t get it!!
#33 Justaminute~
I know, it was interesting that the ones that seemed to have the most compassion were the ones that were supporting a person, who claimed to be a mother and claimed her son was dying. But, those opposers would say that the only reason we did was because PM purportedly knew the Gosselins and her fondness of same had certainly waned, so she supported what we believe in, and that, on the surface anyway, would be true. However, that certainly was not why I supported them. I supported them because they asked me to in what they made out to be and I (me, myself and I) believed at the time.
It is interesting. In the height of the Pennmommy situation, someone had responded and placed a link and asked me to pray for this little baby boy that was in the NICU. I followed the link, read the story and they were asking for donations. I sent $20 through their donation link via Paypal. I never received a thank you from these people, but they were pretty darn quick to pick up that donation, lol. But, I gave it because I wanted to and I prayed for that baby as well. For all I know it is an internet ruse, using a baby to make some bucks (ooooohhhhh sounds like the Gosselins, lol), but that didn’t stop me from praying or sending $20. I did it because I wanted to.
As for the emails, yes, they all used the Pennmommy Gmail account and all has the same IP address.
#34 Momof5~
Hey there Mum! Thanks for taking the time to weigh in and comment as you know I always enjoy reading yoru thoughtful responses and insight on an issue.
You too is one smart Otis Spunkmeyer Original
I agree with you that they have tried to pull me into this “war” and quite frankly, they are wasting their time and energy as far as I am concerned.
As I stated in another response, I have never, to my knowledge, posted on that blog nor emailed them, yet they have had no qualms about posting rather derrogatory sentiments about me personally, as well as my blog, long before the Pennmommy issue. One would have to wonder why.
And as for the Fiona crap, yes, they freely allow her to spew. As such, I can only assume that they support her and her actions. Which, of course, is their right to do so.
Moon , thanks for providing a place to discuss this situation. I found it interesting that Bethanna/Bk’s name popped up in association with Possum. I skimmed over the blogs of the links you provided above, but I missed any mention of this Bethanna - IF Bethanna and BK are one in the same - and I am far from sure about that - that is REALLY interesting. IF SO - BK was someone who posted on GWOP pretty often, and she was a fellow church member with J&K, did volunteering, and was involved with remodeling their first home. She even spoke back and forth with Julie on GWOP - wih Julie confirming that , yes, she knew BK and all she went thru with the G’s. Her kids went to school with Mady and Cara and she had cancer last year, etc. etc. - I remember it all. She abrubtly stopped posting in Aug - right around the same time PennM started her blog. she also definitely lived in PA, not CA as the poster above had thought…..and was far from an athiest….but now I am more confused than ever! I guess this is a big piece of the puzzle - Moon I will leave it to you to put together. How weird!
#37 Monica~
I am not sure that I personally will ever put it together. As I stated, I did not read GWoP all that often.
While I may never put it totally together, I am sure at one point, I will find my own truth in the matter eventually.
Thanks for continuing to weigh in. I appreciate you insight, as you know.
Hello Moon Shine
I have been reading and lurking around all weekend, wanting to comment, but not knowing quite how to respond. I have come to the conclusion that those who “fell for” the Pennmommy saga let their hearts go where they should–sympathy for a mom in pain. It seems as though only those with a blog capable of tracking IP addresses from posts would have made any kind of connection between the P-Mommies in question. The “duped” are accused of reacting to a situation with compassion. The same people are accused of reacting to the G’s situation with hate.
Well, IMO, the evidence against the G’s is compelling and right smack dab on my television set, not to mention right there in black and white with the many, many articles from waaaay back and the not so waaaay back (GH anyone? People? NE?). The evidence against Pennmommy/Pennfamily was not/is not so clear. So when others say “haters–you don’t know the G’s, you haven’t walked in their shoes, they make little mistakes but who wouldn’t with 8 kids” bullshit, it makes no sense that they would condemn a group for an outpouring of sympathy and prayers to someone we don’t know and in my case (thank God), have not walked in her/their shoes. The little inconsistencies in PennM’s posts were chalked up (by me, anyway) to a stressful situation, just like they excuse every Kon stupid ass move with “if you had to deal with 8…”
This is Thanksgiving weekend here in Canada. I am thankful that the situation probably did not occur. ONE mom did not lose her son on Oct. 2. I am thankful that the story reminded me once again that life is far too short, and I make sure I tell my children how much I love them EVERY DAY instead of taking it for granted that they know it. I am thankful that I continue to do random acts of kindness each day, no matter how small. I am thankful that I am making a habit of seeing my elderly parents and lonely Aunts every week (2 hrs round trip) and calling them every day. So, hey, someone please dupe me again in a few months ;).
All in all, it was a game of smoke and mirrors, and the sleuthing and subsequent “reporting” (hey there, Nancy Drew et al.) took the focus off the real issue of the G’s exploiting their children. Let’s get back to the real issue.
Moon, your musings are like a really bad fart: when silent, they are deadly! I think they were pissed off that you didn’t congratulate them on a job well done. When THEY didn’t get a congratulatory “pat on the back” THEY attacked you. Kinda like the Looney Tune that won’t stay away. I wonder why they haven’t commented on that crazy woman’s rantings? Now there is some evidence for you. Why isn’t Nancy Drew et al. on that case?
First class act, Moon. As always.
Moon…. whatever the truth may be, I feel at this point it’s irrelevant. As I’ve said on your site before, I feel duped and drawn into a vortex of drama. With that being said, I chose to read, to post, to pray, to have an opinion. It took away my whole reason for beginning to frequent these blogs, which was J&K. Anyway, I felt it necessary and important to tell you I appreciate your honesty and candor. We all must eat the “pie”.
Take care
-Lauri
#39 I See
Hey there, I have missed you!
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This is Thanksgiving weekend here in Canada. I am thankful that the situation probably did not occur. ONE mom did not lose her son on Oct. 2. I am thankful that the story reminded me once again that life is far too short, and I make sure I tell my children how much I love them EVERY DAY instead of taking it for granted that they know it. I am thankful that I continue to do random acts of kindness each day, no matter how small. I am thankful that I am making a habit of seeing my elderly parents and lonely Aunts every week (2 hrs round trip) and calling them every day. So, hey, someone please dupe me again in a few months ;).
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The foregoing is beautiful and really, at the heart, what life is all about, I feel.
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Moon, your musings are like a really bad fart: when silent, they are deadly!
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I always enjoy a back handed compliment on a Sunday evening, ty, lol
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I think they were pissed off that you didn’t congratulate them on a job well done. When THEY didn’t get a congratulatory “pat on the back” THEY attacked you. Kinda like the Looney Tune that won’t stay away. I wonder why they haven’t commented on that crazy woman’s rantings? Now there is some evidence for you. Why isn’t Nancy Drew et al. on that case?
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This may interest you~ scroll to the comments and read the first one:
http://stargazers-observatory.blogspot.com/2008/10/sad-sad-day-for-atheist-blogosphere.html
#40 Laurie~
Thanks for taking the time to weigh in and comment. And yes, I agree, we must get back to our regularly scheduled program of bringing attention and awareness to the exploitation of children, as well as the train wreck called Jon and Kate Gosselin.
Oh, and the only pie I am going to eat is a freshly baked pumpkin that I have made from my (dare I say it?) organically grown pumpkins!
YUMMMMMMMM
Having recently tried to answer things asked of me at GDNNOP I experienced their version of fairness. Let’s just say beating my head against a wall would probably have accomplished more.
Momof5 - yes I have felt the same way. For people who are proud to be skeptics - who claim that they never believed PennMommy, they sure love to back Jon and Kate. They constantly claim that nothing has been “proven”. For goodness sake, my head beating moment was when Guinevere claimed that Jon and Kate called bagels a “rare treat” because bagels come in a pack of 6 and for them to all enjoy bagels more than one package would have to be purchased.
Their claims of no hidden agendas and not understanding why GWoP attacks them really make no sense when they are pretty much involved in all the same forms of behaviors.
Don’t believe it for a minute. Hidden among threads is a lovely jem regarding a poster who questioned why her post was not posted via e-mail. Nina inadvertently responded to the poster instead of forwarding the e-mail to another mod. She called the poster a bitch. They have a side too they just claim not to.
Moon - When PennMommy’s “story” became that of her what was ocurring with her “son” - not a Gosselin story was mentioned. Anyone that posted - posted comments of encouragement and prayer for her situation. Yes, we are haters indeed.
Hi again, Moon!
I missed you too. Wanna hear some irony? I had a very bad week. In fact, if I blogged about it I would have to change my name to PussMommy
. My precious cat went in for routine surgery, and didn’t wake up due to an underlying heart condition that we were not aware of. So, with tears in my eyes and not wanting to read about this drama, I pretty much stayed off the net and just got on with getting on.
Anyway, I read that comment. I have to tell you I am wary now of other blogs and posters I haven’t seen before the PM saga began. But after my suspicious hackles go down a bit, I may need to read it again. Like you, I have no doubt that the truth is in the middle somewhere. From what I have read in the past weeks, it looks like anyone can BE anyone and say anything here on the net. I hope other people do come forward with something more concrete than this, but that being said, I agree that it is interesting nonetheless.
Enjoy your pie. I can’t believe the ORGANICS got to you! Sure, it’s pumpkins now, but can sprouts be far behind? God, don’t even mention organic velveeta to Lisa!
#44 I See~
Awwwww, I am so sorry for your cat
It is so hard to let them go! Hugs to you, my friend.
Exactly on the hackles, I agree! But it IS interesting and even more so to see what is going to transpire in the next week. It just gets crazier and crazier.
The only organics that have really gotten to me is growing my veggies without any pesticides. I was pretty lucky this season, as I had no predator issues, at least in my garden!
And don’t worry about the sprout, it is safe in the ODVPP (Often Despised Veggie Protection Program), and there it will stay until its new identity is created. Mumblings on the street point to a turnip or beet. Personally, I think they should look into a parsnip; definitely more incognito, IMO.
I’ve been lurking for a bit but have never posted before. I have to say I really enjoy your blog. I found this blog through the link that used to be on Julie’s blog.
Anyway, the letter you posted from Will made me cry. It was eloquent and heartbreaking. I didn’t read any of these blogs for several days after Jason supposedly died until one day I decided to check Julie’s blog to see if she had an update. That’s when I noticed that she no longer had the entry “In defense of PennMommy”…I thought it was odd so I went over to GDNNOP (I hadn’t bookmarked your blog yet and the only link I had to it was through Julie’s) and read all about the latest drama. I have to say that I wasn’t angry that I was duped. I was actually happy to hear that perhaps none of this was true because it was all too sad for words. Maybe that’s weird but that was my reaction to it.
Also, I have to say that I wasn’t really surprised. Although I did believe everything PennMommy was saying, there was a part of me that kept thinking about “Witness for the Prosecution”. I kept wondering if PennMommy’s blog was actually started by Kate fans as a way to discredit the anti-kate faction once PennMommy was exposed as a fraud. This thought didn’t just pop into my head…I remember reading some comments in one of the blogs by Kate fans saying that they should post negative false things about Kate just to show that anyone can post anything and then when they exposed themselves, the kate-haters would feel pretty stupid…I think this may have been on PennMommy’s blog because that was the only other blog where I read comments. The reason I thought about this book is that all this controversy is deflecting attention from the real issues and all the kate-haters can now be dismissed as a bunch of crazies. At one point, I thought that maybe Kate was PennMommy since Julie vouched for PennMommy. It made me think that PennMommy had enough inside information to convince Julie that she was who she claimed to be. I guess this isn’t the case since the IP address is supposedly from Bakersfield. I can’t remember if you confirmed that or not.
Just a few of my thoughts…
Lurker Lisa here! And I would have continued to lurk….but OH NO!!!!
I See had to bring up the beloved Velveeta.
My theory is that organic Velveeta wouldn’t be possible due to it more than likely tasting like the little cardboard box (minus the hermetically sealed foil wrapper) that it is packaged in. Bark-ola!!
And, in case of nuclear war, remember this: Lisa will be able to cut the cheese!!
I’m confused. When the crazies at GDNNOP first starting saying that PM was a fraud, I didn’t pay much attention because the people at that site have proven themselves to be, well, crazy. But now I see that virtually every reference to PM on other sites (Julie’s blog, GWoP) has been deleted. Have most people now accepted as fact that PM never existed? I’ve seen the assertion that PM is really Possummama, but what on earth would motivate her to pull such a stunt?? She has her own blog and her own following and friends.
#16 Jamie~
If the shoe were on the other foot, and gdnnop had accused you and you readers of being heartless stalkers because of a story you knew was a lie, would you feel the same way?
In all seriousness, isn’t this EXACTLY what gdnnop does?
heartless stalkers : Gdnnop calls anyone who opposes the Gosselins heartless stalkers because we write letters to the network and sponsors of J&K+8 expressing our outrage. I honestly can’t count how many times I have seen gdnnop do this.
because of a story you knew was a lie: The Gosselins have perpetrated a fraud for the past 4 years on national television. They have accepted countless gifts from viewers and love offerings from churchgoers based on a fabricated tale of woe. Despite what they say, The Gosselins have never been in dire financial straits. Many people realize the Gosselin’s claims are completely false, and because of this, we are attacked by gdnnop.
I find it ironic that gdnnop would come over here crying foul when their blog is dedicated to ‘trashing’ blogs that do not share their opinions.
Despite all attempts by the Kate and Jon “sheeple”, the “Pennmommy” issue and the “Kate and Jon” issue are entirely 2 different ones. The fact that “Pennmommy” may or may not be “real” does not take away from the fact of the explotation of the Gosselin children by their parents.
Meri :
I was thinking exactly the same thing and I emailed Moon about it…I was thinking: who actually GAINED from this whole sad situation? Yes the Kate fans - so along the lines of your entry above, you could guess that it was a “setup” - and they would look very smart for “uncovering” it - even though I know this is a real stretch. I also think that since Julie spoke/emailed PM and vouched for her - only Julie can answer this but - that must have been some real “bigtime” insider info that PennM. knew in order to convince Julie she was legit. The whole thing is just so weird - including the women who actually met and had lunch w/PennM in CA while her son was supposedly ill - I would love to hear from them to ask just how whacked out this woman was - or - is she that slick that she convinced them in person as well?
What I’m finding interesting about this situation is how so much of how we are interpreting scant facts depends on our point of view. I remember a psychology professor explaining trying to convince a patient that he/she wasn’t dead by using the logical argument that if a person was dead they wouldn’t bleed. The patient’s skin was pricked and some drops of blood appeared. The professor, self-satisfied proclaimed that the patient wasn’t dead. The patient looked at his/her finger and said, “No, that just means that dead people can bleed.” (And talk apparently). For people who followed possummomma’s blog they are sniffing out conspiracies based on harassment by anti-atheists. Others feel that it was an attempt to embarrass Gosselin critics, others that it is Munchasen by internet, etc., etc. Obviously the only person who truly knows why it was done was the person who posted as Penn Mommy, but even if Pennmommy was extremely self aware and posted her motivation accurately there will still be people who say the equivalent of “No, that just means that dead people can bleed.” We all have our own filters on information that defines what is “true” for us.
What has been glaringly demonstrated to me also is how a message is conveyed is just as important as what is conveyed. I was slow to believe that Pennmommy wasn’t who she said she was simply because of the source of the accusations. People who badger, bully, become shrill and confrontational have a hard time convincing others of their beliefs, even when there is at least some truth to them.
#39- I See
I too am from Canada-Happy Thanksgiving!!
I completely agree that this whole situation has made me hold me baby a little closer, and a little tighter more often during the day, and tell her how loved she is as often as I can, and be thankful for her health and happiness.
Moon-thank you for the post above (Munchausen) I intend to read it as soon as I catch up on everything I missed yesterday